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Start"Picard"-Komponist Frederik Wiedmann im Gespräch

“Picard”-Komponist Frederik Wiedmann im Gespräch

Love of music: Interview with Frederik Wiedmann (“Star Trek: Picard”)

In this episode of our German podcast “Zehn Vorne” (Ten Forward), we had a wonderful conversation with composer Frederik Wiedmann about how he came to “Star Trek” and what influences shaped him and the “Picard” soundtrack. He looks back at the exciting time when the soundtrack to Season 3 was planned-out, composed and recorded. We chat about musical themes that he and Stephen Barton composed and arranged, and much more. This is a shortened, translated transcript of our conversation with him.

Frederik Wiedmann, co-composer for the 3rd soundtrack of "Star Trek: Picard"
Frederik Wiedmann, co-composer for the 3rd soundtrack of “Star Trek: Picard”

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): As a layman, how do I imagine a working day as a composer?

Frederik Wiedmann: As a composer for films, you are basically self-employed. That means that you decide yourself when you go into the studio, when you stop, and how long you work on a piece of music; and when you declare it finished. In my case it’s like this: I go into the studio at about eight when the kids are at school and stop again at about 3 in the afternoon when they’re back home. Then I can spend a little time with them, help with homework. I drive them to all the activities, like basketball and ice skating and who knows what. And so does my wife.

Often I go to the studio again at eight in the evening after dinner, again until eleven or so, to do little things. By then, my head is more or less tired. I then do things that don’t demand much brainpower. That’s about my daily routine. I try not to work on the weekend, because I also like to be with my family.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): How many projects do you usually work on at the same time – or do you work away one after the other?

Frederik Wiedmann: In the last few years, there have always been about three series running at the same time. And then additionally one film; so, maybe, five/six films per year during my series. It’s quite a lot. You have to be very disciplined, very efficient every day. Otherwise, you don’t get to the finish line. I have my scheduler, I look at it every day: Okay, I have so-and-so many minutes to compose today, otherwise I’ll fall behind. You need tremendous discipline and also just the ability to compose the music, even if it’s not so inspiring right now. In art, it’s often the case that when you create something, you sit there and think: How do I start now? What’s my first note? This well-known “writer’s block”. I can’t really allow that. I compose whether I’m inspired or not. And over time, you kind of figure it out how to do it without having to sit here for hours, contemplating about themes and harmonies. Then that’s just “Go Time!”

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.com): So, you “mathematize” a little bit, then.

Frederik Wiedmann: Yes, exactly, definitely.

Freddy Wiedmann im Studio

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): So, writers sometimes have writer’s block. Musicians certainly do, too…

Frederik Wiedmann: Absolutely.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): …how do you deal with that? Do you listen to other pieces then, or…?

Frederik Wiedmann: Yes. It’s often the case that I just have to start. There is a funny anecdote that a composer once told me. Unfortunately, I’ve forgotten who it was. But he told me: just start with anything, and then spend an hour deshittifying it! And I kind of took that to heart, because actually there’s something good about every idea. Yes, you just have to put the idea on paper first and then look at it objectively or listen to it, in my case, and then say: Okay, it’s not so bad! If you now change it here and there, then it actually fits quite well! That’s often a good approach, that you just do something, even if it’s not the best idea, and then go back and say: Okay, that’s not so bad, maybe I wouldn’t have done it if I had thought about it for five hours. Maybe you can make something out of it. And often a great idea comes out of the first drafts that you wouldn’t have had otherwise.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): Tell us about what your career was like.

Frederik Wiedmann: I’d love to. I grew up in Germany and I wanted to be a film composer since I was twelve years old. That was a very early wish for me, which is actually unusual. I had totally fallen in love with the film music of John Barry, James Horner and Jerry Goldsmith. When I was that young, everything was different then, we had to have CD and cassette players. You couldn’t get soundtracks as easily as you can today on Apple Music or Spotify. You had to go to the store. And there was only a small section for soundtracks, with a relatively bizarre selection. And if you ordered something, it took months for it to arrive from America. I was an avid soundtrack collector.

I was, I think, 17 or 18, when I met my girlfriend’s neighbor, Mr. Nik Reich. He happened to be a film composer in Augsburg, where I lived. I couldn’t believe that I had met someone – in this small town – who was doing this. I spent a lot of time with him in the studio, just on the couch, so fly on the wall, watching him do it. And that was so inspiring for me, that opened the way for me. So I got to see this job really in practice. That’s how I decided: That’s what I want to do now with my career! Then I applied to Berklee College of Music in Boston. I moved to Boston directly after my civilian service, which I did in England because I had to learn English for my studies. I got through Berklee College relatively quickly, because I wanted to work right away. I didn’t feel like sitting around for hours at college. I did all my credits in advance, so I was able to skip a few semesters. So I was only in Boston for two years, got my bachelor’s degree and then went straight to Los Angeles to look for work. That’s not so easy for a foreigner. I was a bit naïve: I’ll come there and get an apartment, an assistant job and that’s it. But at first, nobody wanted to give me an apartment at all! Because I was a foreigner. No job, no income and only a one-year student visa. A difficult beginning. I slept on friends’ couches for a few months. And so on.

Eventually it worked out and I got a job as an assistant for the composer John Frizzell. He did a lot of stuff. Office Space, Beavis and Butt-Head, Dante’s Peak together with James Dean Howard … and he was such an A-lister back then.

Frederik Wiedmann: And then with Frizzell I was an assistant for four, five years, solo. That’s more or less where I learned everything. The practice, the whole process, how to decide the film music in the beginning, up to the creation, up to the recording. I was there, where he had big meetings with important producers, who then simply rejected pieces of music from him. And then I watched how he deals with a situation like that. It’s a really great school to experience that firsthand! When Warner Brothers says: This piece, we need something else! How do you react as a composer? Are you offended, are you angry? Or do you make it politically correct? What do you suggest as an alternative? So, those were the great apprenticeship years for me.

Then at the end of that time, he helped me get my first movie, the horror sequel “Return to House on Haunted Hill.” They were looking for a composer. They called him on the phone. Of course, they knew they couldn’t afford him. In the end, John said: “Freddie will do great, he was with me for five years now, he’s ready to do the first movie. I’ll do the supervisor! If you need help in any way, I’m happy to be there. But he, I’m sure he’ll do a great job for you! And so I got my first start as a composer, my first solo project. Since then I have my own studio. I do my networking every day, on every project. Snowball effect. Everything leads to more projects. Example: My first film. Then I was very closely connected with the producers, with the picture editor and with the director. The director had made six other films, all of which I was involved in. The picture editor had three other films on the go, which I then also took part in. The producer, also other films. Then with every project you meet new people. And if you do a good job, if you’re nice and if people like to spend time with you in the studio, then you get the call. Then you have something to work on again. That’s how it went from project to project until today. Actually, it’s been relatively busy for me since 2007. Which is great.

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.de): How did “Star Trek: Picard” come about?

Frederik Wiedmann: Yes, with “Star Trek” it was like this: The universe meant well with me. You always dream about this: You have your music on the Internet, on YouTube or Apple Music, and some great director finds it by chance and calls you: Hey, I heard your music, it’s great, I need you for the next movie! A dream scenario, which never really happens. You know such stories of successful composers. Steven Spielberg, he heard John Williams somewhere and then called him. Something like that never happens to me anyway, especially not today, with so much music on the Internet … until someone discovers me!

But I got a call from Terry Matalas, the showrunner for season three.

He said, “Yeah, Freddie, we’re halfway through the third season, really need another composer. We pre-scored the whole season finale with your music from this Australian sci-fi movie, Occupation: Rainfall.” You always cut existing music; that’s part of the editing process, so you get a feel for the episode [before the official music is there or finished]. And they had found my very unknown science fiction soundtrack of this 4 or 5 year-old alien invasion movie online. I had put that online myself, it was an indie project. They thought the score was so awesome that the whole finale was set to it [in its pre-release version]. And now that they were looking for a new composer for the third season, you just said: Who composed all this? We need him! And so they searched, found on the Internet, also my phone number and called me and literally: Hey, your sound is great. That’s what we need. Do you have time? Start today! We have the episode ready for you!

I was like, okayyyy. I’ve always wanted to have that call. I’d best say yes to that, even though I have relatively many things on my mind.

Yes, the tailor had simply found my soundtrack, cut it in provisionally, and then they said: It’s good, we need it. And then, of course, I said “Yes!” right away. Hey, “Star Trek!” Who would say no to “Star Trek”?

I’m a big fan of “Next Generation” myself, even as a child in Germany. There was literally nothing else on TV except “Fred Feuerstein,” “Star Trek: The Next Generation,” “Bonanza” and … yeah, something like that.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): That would have been my next question now: How you yourself feel about “Star Trek”. Yes, that must have been like winning the lottery for you.

Frederik Wiedmann: Absolute dream scenario. As I said, you spend your whole career dreaming about a call like that. And then it suddenly comes. It was overwhelming. And then it was really like: Drop everything, start now! They sent me the first episode and I started right away. From then until the end, it was a mega-race. Television has incredibly short deadlines. You have two weeks for an episode. Anyone who has seen “Picard” knows that each episode is actually a film with an incredible amount of music; very complex, Jerry Goldsmith, James Horner, you name it. We recorded each episode with an 80-piece orchestra. For me, that meant a lot of technical preparation.

  • You have to compose the music
  • You have to get it approved
  • You have to make the mock-up so that the producers can listen to it properly – with your electronic orchestra
  • And then the orchestrator has to go in and put it on paper
  • Everything has to be sent, printed out
  • Everyone needs their own music: the strings, the winds, it all has to be on the podium

Within two weeks: composed, recorded and mixed in no time at all. And on to the next episode, without really taking a breath. In the midst of the process, which was so rapid, I didn’t really notice much. When it was over, I sat in my studio and there was a moment where I stood there exhausted and thought to myself: Holy shit, this just happened? Okay! Now we’re done. And now I just composed 140 minutes of “Star Trek”. Cool. Wow. This realization came later, when the whole spook was over. Definitely a winner of the lottery, yes!

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.de): Quite a bit of time pressure.

Frederik Wiedmann: Yes, absolutely. They were very pressed for time. That’s why they needed a second composer, because Stephen [Barton, composer of the third season] was just … The project was so ambitious compared to the second and first season, musically! It was like a space opera, huge music, themes and everything composed through.

Generally in TV, they take a lot of music from previous episodes and cut it into the new episode, so you don’t have to compose the whole thing completely every time. Simply because of time constraints, that’s how it’s done. But on this one, that didn’t work. Terry really wanted to have only the best. And then just the concept was: we really compose every piece from front to back to tell the stories well, with the music, with the acting. That’s just what the series deserves. It’s that attention to detail. That’s why at some point in episode 4 or 5, Stephen had reached this point: Hey, if we’re going to do it this way, we need help, otherwise we’re going to have to abandon this concept. And we don’t want to do that. We wanted the quality to stay. And so we started talking about two composers. Fortunately, the choice fell on me. Because of the time pressure and because of the love for the project, that everything is really made perfect to the smallest detail: That was then the reason why more people were needed.

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.de): Probably the challenge was also quite big to get a musical style out – between Horner, Goldsmith and also you.

Frederik Wiedmann: Yes, and Stephen. Because Stephen Barton had already started. I came in at half-time, so to speak. Stephen had already set themes and given a lot of the style of the music. I had to follow his sound and that of Horner and Goldsmith and Dennis McCarthy and Alexander Courage, all the “Star Trek” legends. A mishmash and yet homogeneous. It was the big challenge for me: How can I adapt immediately so that in the end it’s like a unified whole?

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.com): Did you work directly with Stephen Barton or did everyone kind of do their own part? Did you sit together in the closet, in the studio … one doing the bass track, the next doing the violins?

Frederik Wiedmann: We had a great working relationship from the beginning. Creatively and interpersonally. Immediately on the same wavelength. It was Terry’s wish that we each do complete episodes. Stephen was on episode 6, then I started on 7, did those completely on my own. He did 8, I did episode 9. A megading! 68 minutes of showdown finale.

And then we said: We’ll do 10 together. He did 35 minutes, I did 35 minutes. Collaboration really took place in that episode. But even here we still had our own pieces. Completely. There was never: You do the base and I do the top. We didn’t do that. We shared themes. Hey, I have a cool Borg theme! I sent it to him. Maybe you can integrate it into one of your pieces. Or he gave me his Titan theme and the Family theme; so we can kind of homogenously incorporate the themes.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.com): Did you know each other before?

Frederik Wiedmann: No.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): Is that where you guys met?

Frederik Wiedmann: Yes.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): Okay.

Frederik Wiedmann: Yes, that was completely new and worked out great. Good guy! It was great fun.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): I’ve already watched it with him. He also makes a very likeable impression.

Frederik Wiedmann: Yes, very talented.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): Yes, definitely. I love your soundtrack. It runs up and down.

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.de): I even have it as a ringtone.

Frederik Wiedmann: And which piece?

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.de): “Make it so!” I cut the ending so that I actually have it as a ringtone.

Frederik Wiedmann: So “Make It So” has a little Funny Story, if you want to hear that.

Michael Schuh and Martin Ackermann: Yes, please!

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.de): Go on!

Frederik Wiedmann: “Make It So” was my episode. I had already finished 7, felt very secure in the project. Terry was already very happy with my music. Everything had worked out well. I was happy: Okay, this is fun and they like me, they still like me.

And then Episode 9 came on, and Terry’s like: Hey, I don’t know what you should do for this one scene. I’m like…I don’t know if we’ll ever get it done. You definitely have to try. So, this is the scene where the whole crew goes back to the old Enterprise while the world is sort of destroyed, a few light years away. It’s the moment all Trekkies have been waiting for. More or less the most important moment in “Star Trek” history, especially in Modern History, which you have to set to music now. So, no pressure. But good luck!

I don’t think I’ve ever sweated so much physically, and I’ve never been so invested in a piece. I sat in the studio dripping with sweat. My neck hurt because I was so stressed. I wonder if it will really work.

I’m very grateful to our editor Drew Nichols, who is absolutely brilliant with temp music. He gave me a roadmap: This is where Goldsmith needs to start, this is where we need [Goldsmith and] Courage’s “Next Generation” theme, this is where we need Horner. So I knew at least a little bit where something was going. It had to turn into a great piece.

I sent the first version to Terry and then sat at dinner and kept checking my phone, looking for feedback. Nothing came. Until eleven at night. I was lying in bed, still nothing. I thought to myself, okay, now I think they’ve fired me. And I’ll find out in the morning. The next morning, still nothing. And I thought: Why doesn’t he write me back? I need to know where I stand on this, if this is good or bad, or if we need to redo it. And then Terry calls me sometime during the day. I pick up the phone all nervous. Hey, I haven’t listened to it yet, I needed a clear head for it, I’ll listen to it tonight though.

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.de): Oh man!

Frederik Wiedmann: At some point, the picture cutter texted: Hey, its great, f***ing great. At least he thought it was good. Finally Terry called: Hey, great!

We changed a few little things. But basically the piece stayed the way it was. It was an emotional roller coaster for me for two days. And especially when you’re then standing at the podium conducting and everything comes together … It’s an incredible, unique moment.

Frederik Wiedmann: During the recording, we have a big cinema screen behind the orchestra, where we see everything that happens in the scene. Then you’re standing there with the orchestra in front of you. You’re playing Goldsmith. You see the Enterprise. And you think to yourself: This is exactly what I’ve been waiting for my whole life!

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.de): I cried a lot.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.com): A lot of people were crying.

Frederik Wiedmann: Good!

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): Truely. You did everything right with the scene. The whole internet confessed that they had tears in their eyes. Very emotional for old and new fans.

Frederik Wiedmann: That makes me very happy.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): You can be, too. Get through that first.

Frederik Wiedmann: Every drop of sweat was worth it.

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.de): But so what.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.com): What’s the difference between Jerry Goldsmith and James Horner for you composers? Did you guys approach that, uh, mathematically? How do you break down composers who wrote the most iconic themes ever? How do you make it your own thing? In the end, it has become something of its own.

Frederik Wiedmann: A very good question. It’s difficult to really explain exactly. Fortunately, with Goldsmith and Horner, they’re two composers that I’ve admired since I was twelve years old. And because of that, I’m very closely connected to the sound. I know immediately: Ah, that’s Goldsmith. Ah, that’s Horner. I don’t know if that can be explained mathematically. The emotional sensitivity of both composers is specific and precise. You can recognize them immediately. If you’re a good musician, if you have the know-how, that you know what it would look like on the music paper, then you can recognize it relatively easily. Horner would take this chord now, with this melody. Goldsmith would do it this way. You can distinguish them harmonically, melodically, and orchestral. Horner does much more with subtle woods and strings. Goldsmith is more like a little bit bigger, with percussion and brass. You can take something like that as elements and put it in. Then you get a hybrid sound.

Stephen had had an interesting idea with his Titan theme, which was an original. It wasn’t Horner, it wasn’t Goldsmith. But the idea was already to compose a “Star Trek” theme with a Horner feel. But a little more “Titanic” than “Star Trek.” Terry always said Titan was not a spaceship, but a ship leaving port. That was the concept. The question was: how would James Horner do it if Titanic was now leaving the harbor? You have to understand a lot about orchestration and instruments, so that you can create exactly that; with your own themes, with new versions of old themes, so that it sounds authentic.

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.de): My great uncle was a music director, composer and conductor. When I once went through the first “Star Trek” movie with him, he said that Goldsmith is very much oriented to Johann Strauss, from the melodic point of view. It was very interesting for me to hear that the great film composers go very much into the old classical composers.

Frederik Wiedmann: Absolutely, absolutely. And you can often hear that very, very well, where the inspirations come from. John Williams, for example: Stravinsky and Prokofiev. You can hear.

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.de): Were there any musical motifs or leitmotifs that you helped develop for the new season?

Frederik Wiedmann: The piece “Dominion” from episode 7. It stands a bit alone in the whole. It starts with a classical piano. Then comes a solo cello. We don’t have a second piece like that in the soundtrack.

Frederik Wiedmann: Terry’s concept was that we would score a whole take of Vadic, from beginning to end, seven and a half minutes. He wanted it as a sequence, in one piece, in layers. Always another new layer, another, bigger and bigger, more and more emotional, until the end. A seven and a half minute, evolving piece. That’s relatively rare on television. When the time came to conduct it, the violinists flipped and flipped about when the piece would end. We then joked around: Yes, we are still on a TV show! Everyone laughed. That kind of thing really only happens in movie productions. That was a special piece.

I also did the Borg theme. Very threatening, with a lot of brass and low strings. I also had a Jack theme, which is one of those interpersonal themes, with Picard and Jack, where they get so slowly closer to each other. All the other themes were in the style of the family theme and the Titan theme. There were two, three more. Those were the main themes. And of course Goldsmith, Horner, McCarthy, Courage. There are so many great melodies that we were allowed to use.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): The album has become something independent. When the Enterprise flies through the big Giga-Cube, how the Next Generation theme was varied: Wow! I was totally thrilled.

Frederik Wiedmann: That was also my piece.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): I don’t know if you’ve noticed, the fandom is a bit split on the new Trek and the old Trek.

Frederik Wiedmann: Yes.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): But they agree on everything, and that is that the music for the third season is terrific.

Frederik Wiedmann: Super. Yes, that was the big concept: we have to create something that old Trek fans will like, but modernized in orchestration, reharmonization and in production.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): You talk about orchestration, about scores. I know what that is. But can you describe it in layman’s terms?

Frederik Wiedmann: Yes, of course. Well, I create my music in the computer. A digital version. I work with Logic, this software from Apple, where you can sequence music. Virtual instruments, orchestra, strings, winds, woods, percussion, everything is there. You can arrange and compose while the movie is loaded into the app. And then you can score directly. A so-called mockup is created. A mockup is sort of a digital, artificial version of orchestral recording. It often doesn’t sound that great, but I’m relatively good at it. But it’s not as good as the real thing in the end. But good enough that people like Terry or other filmmakers can listen to it and make relatively good decisions: Yes, this will work…

There used to be piano sketches. No sequencers. Composer John Williams had to bring filmmaker Steven Spielberg into the studio. Williams then auditioned on the piano: Yes, E.T. is flying up now, and then we play this-and-that… on the piano. Spielberg had to imagine everything, how it would sound with strings and woods. Today, it’s no longer the case. We can deliver relatively good representations of the music.

This can then be cut directly in the editing room [as a pre-version], which is very helpful for the picture editor. When it comes to the orchestra recording, the whole thing has to be put down on paper. That’s where an orchestrator comes in, who then takes my digital file and puts it on professional paper. That’s where an orchestrator comes in, who then takes my digital file and writes it down on professional music paper, transforming it into a so-called score. On top the woodwinds, then the winds, percussion, harp, piano, and then on the bottom the strings. That’s kind of the general format of the score. And everything is on there, every note, every articulation. Do they play mezzo piano? Forte? Is there a crescendo or a decrescendo? Everything is written down in detail…

Volume dynamics in musicMeaning
mezzo pianomedium loud
forteloud
crescendogradually getting louder
decrescendogradually getting louder

Frederik Wiedmann: So that when an orchestra plays it, it’s 95% correct. You make a few adjustments during the recording sessions.

When the score is finished, it goes to another position, the copyist, who then separates each instrument and prints it out so that the flute only sees the flute and not the strings and the winds. This creates an entire score for each piece of music – each with 50 individual parts, which are then distributed throughout the orchestra.

You have to imagine, that’s just one piece. Each episode has about 33 different pieces. And we have two weeks [per episode] to do something like that! So, it’s really Mission Impossible. But somehow it always works.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): And then it’s played by 80 people.

Frederik Wiedmann: 80 people, yes. And they literally play it from the sheet.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): No rehearsal, no practicing?

Frederik Wiedmann: No rehearsal. The musicians don’t get the music in advance. They show up at the recording session, sit down, maybe take a look at it for two minutes, maybe practice a few difficult parts for themselves, a few seconds. But that’s it. And then: OK! Take 1! And then they play.

When you record in places like LA and London, you have the best musicians in the world. They’re sight-reading it like it’s nothing. It sounds sensational in take 1 already. And if you have a good orchestrator who has translated it well [from the sequencer file to the sheet music], and if everything is right with the balance, that the strings aren’t too loud or the winds aren’t too much. You really have to have someone who understands it so well that Take One becomes almost correct. You don’t have the time to fiddle around for an hour a piece. Wrong notes or something, you can’t do that. So you need the absolute top level and a professionalism that everything is really right.

We recorded almost 30 minutes of music in three hours, which is an insane amount. But that’s only possible if everything is really right, from the preparation to the sound engineer. Even the click tracks we need for the orchestra. They all hear a click that they follow synchronously. This, in turn, is synchronized with the scene. It has to fit, it has to be recorded exactly as I composed it. And all the components have to be perfectly right. If you constantly have to fix something, it won’t work.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): And you conduct your score yourself? And Stephen Barton conducts his? Do you take turns? Whoever has the time? How should I imagine that?

Frederik Wiedmann: Yes, exactly. Stephen conducted his stuff, I conducted my stuff. My wife, who I’ve been with for almost 20 years now… We met at Berklee. She’s also a composer and very, very good at conducting. And she’s also my orchestrator, very hands-on. She conducts for me most of the time, which is great because she wrote the scores. She knows exactly where what has to be and can regulate faster if something is not right, because she has the complete overview. And I sit in the booth with the sound engineer and focus on the sound and can then give feedback on what I want to change.

My problem is that when I conduct, I’m too busy. Am I doing everything right? Now comes the flute cue! You have to give each musician the cue. Then I can’t concentrate well on the performance when I have so many other things on my mind.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): I see.

Frederik Wiedmann: I then much rather sit in the studio booth, listen carefully, that I can then say: Yes, the flutes were a bit too loud; trombone a bit less; the tuba was…. There I can focus on the result I want without having to conduct, without conducting patterns and cues distracting me.

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.com): You and your wife are a great team.

Frederik Wiedmann: Indeed.

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.de): So in a recording session like that, we have a big orchestra, a conductor, you, sitting in the booth, listening. How many other people are there? Around 100?

Frederik Wiedmann: About 80 in the orchestra, the musicians, a conductor, a person who makes all these individual parts, if there is a mistake, corrects it, reprints it, puts it on the desk. This person sits at the computer, ready to go at a moment’s notice: Hey, the trumpet is transposed wrong, we have to reprint this. He does that very quickly. Then you have an orchestrator. So in my case: my orchestrator conducts. But normally the orchestrator sits in the studio and reads along. And now when I say, I don’t like this, can we change this, he comes to me with ideas. Then there’s a sound engineer who manages all the microphones. And then there’s the pro tools engineer who sits at another computer, presses record and organizes all the recordings, so we don’t lose our nerves later when we mix. That’s basically the main team. Every composer has one or two assistants like that. I have two that are just there then, they can help out. That’s why you see when you watch a movie, and it comes to the music….

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.de): …there’s a lot of them coming in the credits.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.com): Definitely.

Frederik Wiedmann: Awesome.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): Stephen Barton told in an interview that Terry Matalas was often in the studio with him and sat behind him and said: Yes, here a little higher, here a little lower.

Frederik Wiedmann: That’s really true.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): Is he that musical? Does he just know what he wants, does he react intuitively?

Frederik Wiedmann: Well, yes, that is definitely reality. Terry didn’t come to my studio, but Stephen worked with him very often, especially for the rough concept. The Titan theme, for example. That really had to be right, it was used all the time.

I’ve never met anyone who is not a professional musician but has such incredible knowledge when it comes to soundtracks and music. It’s often the case that you have directors or producers who say things like: I don’t like French horns. Actually, they’re talking about flutes, but they don’t know it.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.com): Yes.

Frederik Wiedmann: But Terry is completely different. He knows everything about “Star Trek” music. You play a piece from any movie and he knows immediately: Oh yes, that happens in that movie at that point, that composer did that. That was incredibly helpful. He was able to communicate very specifically. Hey, Dennis McCarthy, Next Generation, that one scene, we need something like that here. He then also means that. That’s then never nostalgic memories. That is then really specific. He knows a lot about music theory, about instruments and orchestration. He gets very constructive feedback. Hey, the trumpets feel a little high. How about an octave lower? Things like that usually cause composers to roll their eyes. Can you please do your stuff and I’ll do my stuff, okay? But with Terry, that wasn’t the case at all. He has an incredible understanding of music, a very good sensibility. He really knows exactly what works and has a very specific idea of the whole thing. We just always know what we need to do. We can completely focus on making the best version of it.

In movies and series, it’s often the case that people don’t know exactly what they want. Then you have to try around. Hey, how about this? Okay, doesn’t work? Okay. How about this? That’s what I call shooting in the dark because you don’t know who you’re going to meet. It can be frustrating when you don’t know what they want. I can’t really grasp this film unless someone gives me specific direction. With Terry, that just wasn’t the case at all. He’s like, “Your temp of your Australian sci-fi movie is perfect! That’s what we need! But more Trek! Okay? With an instruction like that, I know exactly what to do. It’s incredibly helpful to have someone with such knowledge, understanding and sensitivity to film music as Terry Matalas.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.com): Yes, nice!So it was easy work?

Frederik Wiedmann: It was incredibly pressured time-wise, but from that perspective it was incredibly easy. Also, we really only worked with Terry, which is also unusual for a series of this caliber. Usually you get network notes, feedback from producers, feedback from the director, feedback from the showrunner, and maybe from the studio. CBS, Paramount and so on. But with us Terry is the only contact. We send it to Terry. And if Terry says it’s good, it’s done. No discussion. Very good for us.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de):Would you say you had enough freedom on the project? Would you have liked more freedom? If yes, how would your “Star Trek” have sounded?

Frederik Wiedmann: Terry absolutely gave me enough freedom. I would say it wouldn’t sound any different.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): Neat.

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.de): Working on Star Trek, did it influence your view on film music? For example, has it also changed your commitment a bit for upcoming projects…?

Frederik Wiedmann: Yes, I think every project does that a little bit. “Star Trek” probably a bit more, because it was just very much a very important project. I learned an incredible amount in the process. I did a lot of analysis during that time, a lot of listening to Goldsmith and Horner; really, analytical listening. I’m sure that will continue to accompany me, that knowledge; orchestration and arrangement. It will definitely influence me in further things. I am composing for a series. It’s called “Dragon Prince” on Netflix. I’ve found myself doing things that I did in “Star Trek”…

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.com): But isn’t it normal? Look at James Horner! You recognize him partly because he took over many phrasings into the next film!

Frederik Wiedmann: Absolutely.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): I remember! “Cocoon!” I was doing homework on the side. I was still a kid. I let the movie run. And thought: Huh? Wait a minute! That’s exactly the theme that was also used in “Wrath of Khan”…

Frederik Wiedmann: Yes.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): But somehow every composer does that, right? Even old Bach did that, back then!

Frederik Wiedmann: Absolutely, yes. I think we often do versions of ourselves without really knowing it. That’s okay, as long as it’s exactly the same.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.com): But isn’t it normal? Look at James Horner! You recognize him partly because he took over many phrasings into the next film!

Frederik Wiedmann: Absolutely.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): I recall “Cocoon!” I was doing homework. I was still a kid. I let the movie run. And thought: Huh? Wait a minute! That’s exactly the theme that was used in “Wrath of Khan”…

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): But somehow every composer does that, doesn’t he? Even old Bach did that, back then!

Frederik Wiedmann: Absolutely, yes. I think we often do versions of ourselves without really knowing it. That’s okay, as long as it’s exactly the same.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): Did you have contact with Jeff Russo? Did you take your cue from his music? Or did you start completely from scratch?

Frederik Wiedmann: From scratch. The idea was that the third season should be its own thing, independent of seasons 1 and 2.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): Okay. And the next question would be: Has “Star Trek” opened doors for you now?

Frederik Wiedmann: That’s still hard to say. There was no opportunity directly because of “Star Trek”. But many people have emailed me; people I hadn’t talked to in a long time. Filmmakers, producers, studio, et cetera. They had seen “Picard,” read my name, and emailed me: Hey! Great Job! Just watched it! Great!

And that’s a great experience, of course. With my projects, it’s often that they have a really big audience. I do a lot of stuff for kids, animations and stuff. The kids might recognize it. But now not necessarily adults, directors or producers. But this time it was just that I got quite a lot of recognition there from important people that I always wanted to impress. I am sure that in the long run something could come up.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): Hollywood is currently at a standstill.Do you already feel any effects? Is there something on the horizon?

Frederik Wiedmann: Yes, of course! A few films that should have happened are now on hold until things get sorted out. Thank God, I do a relatively large amount of animation. So, I’m still doing three series right now. Animation is a different contract for actors and screenwriters, it’s not affected by that yet.

But you can already tell. Very many of my friends and colleagues are in limbo right now and not doing anything because of this whole story. It’s difficult. First of all, we’re all worried about next year. I’m in post-production. After film shoots, it always goes into post-production, where sound, sound, music. What would be shot now would go into post-production early next year. Since nothing is being shot now, there’s nothing for us to work on next year. That’s a little bit of a concern.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): If we play through this hypothetically now: It’s dragging on for two, three years, after all. Do you have an alternative, what you could do? Would you want to work as a musician? Would you teach composition? Would you, I’m just going to say this stupidly, play in a band somewhere? You are a jazz musician.

Frederik Wiedmann: I’m really not a good guitarist. A band, that would rather fail. I could teach, of course. But I would probably concentrate on doing more German stuff. I have my foot in the door of the German scene. RTL and filmmakers in Germany. So I would try to do a little bit more there during that time until it slowly recovers here. I did this “Miss Merkel” movie for RTL recently and a few other series for RTL and VOX.

Teaching is always an option, of course. I taught for a long time at USC, in their film scoring branch here in Los Angeles. That was quite a time. I had to stop because it was just too much work, with series and with babies at home.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.com): Are your kids learning music, too?

Frederik Wiedmann: Yes. Both piano.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): Nice.

Frederik Wiedmann: Yes.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): Back to soundtracks. How do you choose instruments and timbres in general to create atmosphere?

Frederik Wiedmann: That happens intuitively. Sometimes it’s a concrete decision. Maybe feedback comes from the director, who then says: I absolutely need a cello here. Then you have to try to translate the emotion correctly, with the requested instrument. Often it’s my own decision. For example, in “Dragon Prince”. There we have many ethnic instruments, flutes and strings from all over the world. It’s great fun to use them.

Also – please meet our extraordinary woodwind performer for #TheDragonPrince @field_of_reeds . She is SUCH a big part of the sound and I couldn't be more thrilled with what she has contributed. Simply Amazing. Here she is performing a "Quad-Flute" for one of the pieces. pic.twitter.com/eZBTiAnQkM

— Freddie Wiedmann (@freddiewiedmann) July 28, 2023

Frederik Wiedmann: They sound unorthodox and unusual. Now, how can I do that with an Armenian instrument? Here, where it’s about murder and manslaughter? It’s an interesting challenge; setting something differently than how it’s expected.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.com): How do you balance music so as not to drown out the dialogue and sound effects?

Frederik Wiedmann: You develop a sensitivity to where sound effects will play a role. In post-production, as composers, when the sound isn’t ready, placeholder soundtracks come in.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): Is the dialogue already in then?

Frederik Wiedmann: The dialogs are there. A lot is still being changed and re-recorded; but basically everything is there.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): And you can hear the dialogs as well….

Frederik Wiedmann: Yes.

There are a few rules. If someone whispers very softly, the music has to stay subtle. If you want the audience to hear your music, you have to make it loud when it doesn’t disturb anything else. Difficult thing; especially when people are talking quietly. I’ve been doing this for 20 years, more or less. I’ve learned a lot.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.com): What was the most difficult thing about composing the “Star Trek” soundtrack? And what was the most beautiful?

Frederik Wiedmann: The most difficult and the most beautiful memory are both the same, the piece “Make It So”, which we already talked about. The writing process and waiting for feedback, the immense pressure: that was really one of the most difficult, challenging things I’ve ever composed. No question about it.

Simply because there was so much pressure from the fandom, from expectations, the Legacy, from “Star Trek.” I knew for sure this was going to be a piece that was going to be talked about a lot. That was definitely the thing that stressed me out the most. When it was done, recording it became the absolute best moment in the whole process; conducting that piece! I conducted it myself because my wife wasn’t in LA at the time.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.com): What was the second worst thing? 😉

Frederik Wiedmann: There wasn’t really one. Except for that one piece, it was really a super experience, start to finish [from beginning to end]. I would do it again any time. With the same team. No problem.

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): Let’s hope that there will be the “Star Trek: Legacy” series sometime in 2025.

Frederik Wiedmann: Yes!

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.de): Were there people who inspired you extremely to go in the direction of film music? Not only Jerry Goldsmith or James Horner, but maybe also from your private environment?

Frederik Wiedmann: Well, as I said, Nick, in Augsburg. He was a very big influence for me, because with him I saw for the first time that someone was doing this. Film music is an abstract job. Until then, I couldn’t imagine what everyday life looked like. How do you compose music for film? I don’t know. He was a big influence.

The second influence was really my first boss, John Frizzell in L.A. That’s where I started working myself, seeing how it’s all done, from front to back. I kind of learned the craft. Those two the big influences for me.

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.com): What were the valuable musical lessons in your life?

Frederik Wiedmann: That’s an interesting question. Berklee College of Music, where I studied, they have a focus on jazz. Before I came to Berklee College, I was a jazz guitarist. Not very well, but I understood it and played it. Jazz is very much about theory. You can’t play jazz without knowing what you’re doing. It goes hand in hand. After all, it’s a completely different harmony theory than classical. I just learned jazz harmony in great detail during my time at Berklee College. I focused on that, and it fascinated me a lot. I still notice today that my composition process is based on jazz harmony and not on classical harmony.

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.com): Is there anything in your life that you are very grateful for?

Frederik Wiedmann: For everything, actually. Basically, everything has developed the way I imagined it. It was often not very easy. So I am most grateful to my wife, who has stood by my side for 20 years in this really turbulent business. She is also a musician, she understands.

Frederik Wiedmann: When I have to tell her that I have to mix a few things on Sunday evening, she understands perfectly. I’m really immensely grateful. She’s as passionate about music as I am. Since we work together a lot, it’s actually always a very harmonious and rather deep atmosphere.

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.de): That’s really cool!

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): Nice!

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.de): Is there a movie you especially like and where you would have loved to write the music to, if you had had the chance?

Frederik Wiedmann: “Forrest Gump”! That’s one of my absolute favorite movies. And the music is so great! I would have loved to make something like that myself. A great biographical drama with so many facets. Very interesting, musically.

Martin Ackermann (TrekZone.de): I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you, that next time a kind of “Forest Gump” will happen.

Frederik Wiedmann: Thank you!

Michael Schuh (TrekZone.de): Thank you for the wonderful chat! It was a lot of fun!

Frederik Wiedmann: For me too! Thank you very much for having me in the “studio”! It was a great pleasure to talk to you! See you next time!

Maja T Mo
Maja T Mo
Beim TZN dabei seit der Erstausgabe des DAILY-TREK-Newsletters, 1999.

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Die Musik war super. Besonders die erwähnte Szene mit der “D” in Folge 9 ist absolut genial. Wahnsinn, was hier geleistet wurde in so kurzer Zeit!

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